Letters to Lewie

The 1745 Association Click the Highlander

Letters to Lewie

Jacobite Monument at Glenfinnan

This is a place to which members (and others) may write letters to the 1745 Association.

Webmaster Lewie Caw welcomes your correspondence. He prefers email to Letters to Lewie but will accept snailmail to:

Lewie Caw,

4 Mill St,

Eynsham, Witney,

Oxon, OX29 4JS

Letters will not be accepted without the name of the writer.

The name of the writer will be published.

Geographical addresses will not be published.

Email addresses will not be published unless the writer requests otherwise.

Lewie reserves the right to edit letters and to publish or not at his own discretion. Please try to keep your letters fairly short.

At present and until further notice letters will be removed from the site one month after publication. However, all letters will be archived for possible future reference.

November 04

A letter from Mrs Virginia Wills regarding the battlefield site at Sheriffmuir

July 19

Hi Lewie

I am hoping that one of your members may be able to help me

A few weeks ago I was driving along the back road which goes from the A939 (Nairn to Granton on Spey) to Cawdor. Just before the ford we discovered a gravestone (picture attached)

I cannot find anything online about it.

The Cawdor Heritage Group know it is there, but no more than that.

The staff at Culloden Battlefield also know of the stones existence and tell me that it was erected at the same time as the memorial cairn and clan grave stones at the battlefield. They also know that someone (who?) puts flowers at it every month.

Any more information would be gratefully received

I have also been told that there may be three or four more graves like this in the Highlands. Does anyone know anything about these?

I look forward to hearing anything about this from you

Thanks

Gail Steele

Inverness

July 01

Hello Lewie,

Just finished your book. It's enthralling stuff, and provided me with facts I did not have a clue about! I've learned a lot.

Plans for the Jacobite week here in August are proceeding. Local restaurants are looking at providing Jacobite-theme menus, but I can't seem to find a dish that typifies what was eaten in those days.

Can you enlighten me? Help will be much appreciated.

Regards

Peter

Hi Peter

Glad you liked the book. Tell all your friends-- Could use the sales!!!

I am no expert on the Jacobite diet but food is mentioned in lots of accounts of the Rising. As you might expect the diet consisted almost entirely of what could be produced very locally and what was in season at the time. All but the very top echelons of society had a very basic and usually inadequate diet as far as I can see. Indeed it can well be argued that the mass emigration from the Highlands in the 100 years or so after Culloden was as much driven by the fact that the available food supply could not keep up with the rapid rise in the population as it was by either government policy and the virtual collapse of the clan system which led to evictions and enclosures.

As there was little knowledge of nutrition it is likely that bulk and therefore a full stomach was regarded as important, as was the eating of high energy foods i.e. cereals and fats whereas the eating of non bulky foods --vegetables for example-- was seen as less important. There were probably all sorts of vitamin deficiencies. Even potatoes do not get much of a mention.

The notion of "cuisine" was in its infancy I think.

The poor people (most of the population) seem to have lived on porridge or other oat and barley based bread type products, or drammach as it was (and possibly still is) called. Drammach was simply oatmeal mixed with cold water. This was supplemented by dairy products, eggs, only very occasionally meat (once the animal was dead there would be no continuing supply of milk, wool, eggs etc). Fish does not seem to figure much in the diet, neither sea fish nor river fish, although no doubt those living on the cost ate shellfish and seaweed from time to time. A Hunter-gatherer economy existed as well as basic cultivation so what could be gleaned or poached from the land would also be available. Berries, rabbits etc

I think I can do no better that to refer you to this website http://bachlab.balbach.net/nsdb.html

It has food extracts taken from Boswell & Johnson's tours of Scotland in 1775 & 1785. This is quite some time after the Rising but I don't suppose the diet had changed much.

Of course Johnson and Boswell were the "celebrities" of the day and so it unlikely they were sleeping in a bothy or even blackhouse. They were with the top end of society and this combined with the famous Highland hospitality of the time would ensure they were fed on the best available.

For Jacobite themes dishes you should keep it simple and avoid using ingredients unavailable at the time (no pasta!!) Perhaps use menu terms of the era "Collops" seems to crop up quite a lot. On October 14 "Sowans" is mentioned.Check it out here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sowans. Does not sound very nice!

Mutton , rather than lamb, gets lots of mentions as does "broiling" as a method of cooking. This seems to be the cooking of meat in an enclosed pan in an oven. The Americans are big on broiling so perhaps there are a few about you could ask.

Hope this helps

Regards
Steve

June 16

Dear Mr. Caw,

I should be grateful if you could help me. Together with local supporters I am planning a ceremony to mark the first skirmish of the rebellion at Highbridge.

I am anxious to find a source for Jacobite-themed banners and flags, particularly the Prince's Standard. Would you know where I can source some?

Incidentally, in your list of important dates I can't seem to see any mention of the skirmish which was the first and remarkable confrontation between the Jacobites and Government troops.

Perhaps the following may be of use for your magazine:

Regards,

Peter Wilson, Tirindrish House, Spean Bridge (01397 712398)

A remarkable moment in Highland history will be marked in August at Highbridge when the Jacobite heritage group Na Fir Dileas -- the Loyal Men --hold a march to the bridge.

It will be the first time the events at the bridge in 1745 have been celebrated in such a way.

On August 16 that year a party of Jacobites, led by Major John Donald MacDonald of Tir nan dris (Now Tirindrish), fooled two companies of the Second Battalion of the Royal Scots Regiment into believing they were surrounded.

Major MacDonald and his followers, numbering only 11 including a piper, stood on the bridge armed with swords and muskets. Then they leapt into the wooded area and dashed from tree to tree in a successful ploy to persuade the 85-strong marchers that they were surrounded.

The troops panicked and surrendered.

Na Fir Dileas will march with a piper along a new path to the bridge on August 21 to mark the event which was the first skirmish of the Jacobite rebellion. They will then hold a service at the site.

For many years now the bridge has steadily deteriorated, with access to the site somewhat difficult.

However this has now changed thanks to the generosity of a frequent visitor to the Highlands, Dr. Alan Reece, a prominent engineer and mountaineer from Tyneside.

He donated £180,000 to provide a two-mile footpath from Spean Bridge village which takes walkers along the old Wade road, past the bridge, and on to the famous Commando Memorial.

The local footpath group is looking into the possibility of funding to stabilise the bridge and provide a viewpoint for visitors.

The area tourism group is delighted at the help being given by Na Fir Dileas who will come to Spean Bridge following the raising of the standard at Glenfinnan. A number of local businesses are expected to give support by flying appropriate flags and restaurants may have Jacobite themed menus.

26 April

Dear Lewie
On Sunday 24th July between 11am and 4pm Braemar Castle will be hosting a Jacobite themed fete to remember that on this weekend 266 years ago Charles Edward Stuart arrived in Scotland. Last year was the first year of this event at the castle and we were delighted to welcome over 700 people. This year we are planning a bigger and better event and hoping to increase that number. As event coordinator I'm writing to inform you of it and to ask if you could perhaps put the date and venue on your website for interested Jacobite followers. The event is a fund raiser for the castle which is the only community run castle in Scotland (check out its website,www.braemarcastle.co.uk ) and is in much need of restoration and refurbishment. It is a castle that has been involved in the Jacobite movement throughout its history.

Best wishes.

MarilynBaker
Braemar Castle's Jacobite Day2011

18 April 11

Hello Lewie,

I am writing to you because I am not sure who to contact about this matter.

Have just been to High Bridge where on August 16 1745, the first action of the “Forty-Five” took place.

I am greatly saddened by the dilapidated state, of the bridge and the walk route down to the bridge.The cairn is still standing on the Fort William side

There has at some time been a board walk way put down to the bridge, through the woods, this is now overgrown slippery and in a broken and dangerous state. Fallen trees are also blocking the path and procedure is dangerous. The board walk is propped up in various places of disrepair. It is certainly not recomended for able or disabled access,

It is such a shame, being as it is a site of some notoriety and importance to Scottish history..

On your web site you show a picture of the bridge, saying this is as it is today. It is not like this at all, you can`t cross the bridge as the impression on the site may indicate, the ironwork is a mangled wreck and only parts of it remain over the gorge.

Very sad !

Kevin

Hi Kevin

Goodness me! I certainly hope the website does not give the impression that the bridge can be crossed. It's been in a very dangerous state for years. I'll indicate that on the site straight away. I used the photo of "Highbridge today" as it is taken from river level. Getting down there is pretty well impossible as well although it may be possible to walk along the river from lower down or higher up for all I know (and I don't). I'll add a couple more photos so that people can see the state of the bridge. If you have one perhaps you'd like to send it to me.

Last time I was there (couple of years ago) the boardwalk and path were difficult but not impassable. I am sorry to hear that this has got worse.

The cairn was erected by the 1745 Association but the association has no responsibility for the path down to the bridge. I do not know who is responsible for maintenance of the path. The Council perhaps?

Lewie

08 March 11

Dear Sirs

I am a member of The Association and would be obliged if publicity be given and indeed invites extended to an event on 30th April 2011 and The Fisherman's Tavern in Broughty Ferry, Dundee.

A plaque will be unveiled commemorating an incident of The '45, which saw the Chevalier De Johnstone escape to Fife via Broughty Ferry, with the assistance of two intrepid Broughty lasses.

The girls, Mally and Jenny Burn were the local innkeeper's daughters.

Details can be found here:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/ event.php?eid=186035734760105

and further details can be gained from myself, if required. caoimhin1745@yahoo.com

Yours

Kevin

22 Feb 11

Hi Steve

I enjoyed you 2009 article in The Highlander on Flora MacDonald. I have an old family history written in 1926 by an 81 year old CSA vet, and Texas county sheriff stating that his great-grand mother was Mary Elizabeth MacDonald Chinault. Also, that her brother was Sergeant MacDonald who served with Frances Marion in the Rev. I started checking this out several years ago and found that there was a Sgt. MacDonald who served with Marion. On a MacDonald web site I found that Sgt. Alexander MacDonald was Marion's chief scout and was killed late in the war. Also, the Alexander's father was Tory General Donald MacDonald who came to the U.S. in 1773 and was 5th and last of the line of the MacDonald of Totamurich and Knock. I also found that Gen. MacDonald was a British Major who was at Bunker Hill before Moore's Creek.. I can't find any information about his children. I'm certain that in the early 1800's it would not have been popular in Tennessee to have a Tory General as a father. Can you help?

Thanks again. John McCraw, McKinney, Texas

Hello John

First of all I should tell you that I am not a professional researcher nor am I a professional historian. I am simply an enthusiastic amateur.

I think that you have been searching for the children and descendants of Donald MacDonald for quite a while and therefore your depth of knowledge is a good deal greater than mine. As you are well aware the internet offers us all an equal chance at research although no doubt there are masses of information in library and government archives etc that have not yet made it to the www.

After modest research it seems to me that finding MacDonald's children (if there are any) will be very difficult. No doubt you have seen this sort of thing http://wc.rootsweb. ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi? op=GET&db=glencoe&id=I39141

At present I cannot even find evidence that he was married at all. You may know better of course.

Hi Stephen:

When I first E-mailed you I thought you were in North Carolina. I now see that you are in the UK. I visited there in 1998 and had a wonderful time. My wife and I spent a week in Scotland. Went to Orkney and Skye. The family story is that my paternal ggggggrandfather William MacCraw left the Isle of Skye around 1720. I think he was a Jacobite, because of his sons names.
Gen. Donald MacDonald would be on my mother's side. I have found in various places that before Moore's Creek the Gen. was in the British Army and was either a Major or Lt. Col. and said to be a the Battle of Bunker Hill. I don't believe that he was a Jacobite. Also after his capture he was held for a long period of time because his rank was in question. He was appointed Gen. by the Governor of North Carolina, but held a lesser rank in the regular British Army. The U.S. wanted him exchanged Gen. for Gen., but the British wanted the exchanged Major for Major. Finally, he got back to London, one source states. It was reported that he was 65 years old in 1776 at the time of Moore's Creek battle.
There should be some listing of him in the British Regimental histories, but I don't know what Regiment. It could be an early highlander regiment.

Dear John

Yes I am in UK. Not even Scotland. I am an Englishman living in Oxfordshire. Had a good time in NC a couple of years ago.

My tunnel vision had not allowed me to consider that he may have fought at Culloden on the Hanoverian side. I assumed he was a Jacobite.

Even if he is listed in one of the early Highland militias (and I doubt if record keeping was perfect) his name does not help in identifying him does it? Donald MacDonald is the 18th C Scottish equivalent of the modern day John Smith. There are quite a lot of them about. As I said I will ask those who I think may possibly be able to help and we will hope for the best

Steve

5 Feb 11

have just found your excellent website and letters page.

My family has had an unsubstantiated rumour passed through many many generations, that we are the descendants of a "scottish" soldier who deserted the cause in the heat of the battle.

I cannot trace an ancestor earlier than a birth around 1787, so if this rumour is true, this would be a child or grandchild of the deserter. My family then resided in south east Lancashire, close to Manchester. Naturally I have put 2 and 2 together and wonder whether the ancestor was recruited into the Manchester regiment of the Jacobite army.

From your roll of the Manchester regiment, or the muster roll of the Jacobite army, do you have any soldier with a surname of MILNES or milne or mills?

The surname MILNES has of course, both Scottish and Lancastrian origins.

Thank you in eager anticipation

Barrie Milnes

Hi Barrie

First my apologies. You wrote before Christmas but I don't remember getting the email. Perhaps I did I don't know . Anyway here we go

The Muster Roll 5 people with the name of Miln

6 with the name of Milne

0 with the name of Milnes

2 with the name of Mills

There are a further 28 called Mill, Miller or Millar

Miln

James Miln Stoneywood's Aberdeen Regiment

Alexander Miln from Moy Colonel Lady Anne Macintosh's Reg

Lachlan Miln " "

William Miln Duke of Perth's Reg

David Milne Doctor and Surgeon. from Linlithgow Taken prisoner on suspicion but found innocent

Milne

James Milne from Landends, Logie, Ogilvy's Reg Reported to be "at home" in 1746

Robert Milne from Kirriemuir " "

Thomas Milne from Burn of Lednathie " "

Alexander Milne (or Mills or Mill) Shepherd from Bonnyton, Marton " "

Andrew Milne (aged 17) a tailor from Banff Duke of Perth's Reg. Taken Prisoner at Carlise Transported to Antigua

George Milne of Balcathie Ogilvy's Reg

Mills

William Mills Manchester Reg from Lancashire Taken prisoner and transported to Antigua

George Mills Reg unknown Imprisoned at York and escaped

Don't have the time to search the other 28 similar names but hope this helps. Need any more info. about any in particular let me know and I'll do my best but this is probably all there is.

Lewie

6 Jan 11

Hello:
The following is a letter from my Great Grandfather, William Lumsden, dated
December 18, 1880 Cayuga, New York State, USA
"Keep this Safe

"Dear Geo:" (William's eldest son)
"I am not in anything like full possession of the history of my family. Secret papers were buried with my Grandfather at the north side of St. Selskars
English Church, Wexford, Ireland. My father cared for none of these things. I will tell you all I know or have heard but you may think it romantic.

I understand that if the Battle of Culloden had decided in favor of Prince Charles, I would be master of Tilwhilly Castel a few miles from Aberdeen today.
Our family as fas as I know and my Grandfather kept ir from us as the knowledge was hopeless and would make us respond instead of regaining our position; ou family had Tilwhilly and a place on the edge of the Highlands & a place in Northumberland by marriage & a confiscated place in Co. Antrim in Ireland which Gov't restored to the ousted Roman Catholics giving us no compensation and the place in wexford to which the family retired, but that was not estate but the -----i think.

Our family always supported the Stewarts. They were soldiers for Mary Queen of Scots and so on. Andrew Lumsden was latin Secretary for Prince Charles at Culloden. ----------------------------------------
Our branch were the Jacobite Branch, NonJurors, High Church Episcapaleans. Since Culloden much in the service of the Olod east India Company.
Genealogy
George Lumsden Gentleman
Alexander Lumsden of the Fleet
William Lumsden Army Surgeon
John Lumsden of the Army
Wm. Lumsden M.A. of the Church
There is a ------of other things, but what use. Work away now.
Your Aff. Father
Wm. Lumsden."

My questions is: Do you know of any Lumsdens that are on the lists of Jacobites, specifically Alexander Lumsden ( I estimate b. abt 1730 probably in Aberdeen, Scotland and
died in Wexford, Ireland, I believe.)
Regards,
Barbara

Dear Barbara
Andrew Lumsden was indeed Secretary to Prince Charles Edward during the Rising of 1745
There are three other Lumsdens noted in the Muster Roll of the Prince's army

David Lumsden was a Captain in Lord Lewis Gordon's Regiment.He was a farmer from Auchlossan and was killed at Culloden
John Lumsden of Ardhuncart, Kildrummy was a Lieutenant in the same reg, Also killed Culloden
William Lumsden served in Johnstone's Comany in the Duke of Perth's regiment. Of his fate there seems to be no information

I cannot find an Alexander Lumsden. Sorry

The two best comprehensive sources for this sort of info are "No Quarter Given" Thhe Muster Roll of Prince Charles Edward Stuart's Army 1745-46 Edited by Livingstone, Aikman & Hart. Quite easy to get and in print

All three Lumsdens are in the above book

The other is "Prisoners of the 45" Eds Seton & Arnot Pub 1928 in 3 vols. Not in print. Rare and quite expensive.

None of the three Lumsdens are noted in this although as the title suggests this book deals with prisoners and does not include those killed in action

Lewie

Dec 12

Hello Lewie
Hope you can help!
I have been researching my ancestor Benjamin Ross for many years, mostly “off” and occasionally “on”. Within a small family circle he was only notable for a RN action off Cuba in 1740 where he was identified as an important contributor to the taking of a Spanish galleon, the Santa Rita. He moved on from the “Torrington” to the “Defiance” as boatswain. If we move forward to 1746, he re-appears in the narrative as one who said the Young Pretender had a claim, when he was overheard at a funeral in Kent to utter some potentially treasonous comments. He was ordered to be detained on the Royal Sovereign at the Nore, however I am yet to discover his fate. Should any of your members have any ideas on his fate, then I would be most interested to hear from them. I have reason to suspect he was related to the Lord Rosses of Halkhead....
Sincerely
Andrew Ross
Perth Western Australia

Hello Andrew
Thanks for your interesting letter. There were a couple of dozen people named Ross who are listed in Prince Charles Edward's army. None are called Benjamin unfortunately. I'll place your letter on the website and we will see if anyone has any thoughts.

Lewie

Nov 01

Dear Sir,

I'm a French retired officer and some of my ancestors were from Scotland. Their name is Macquarrie. They are not from the main branch, in the isles of Ulva, Mull... Some information direct me toward the more northern Hebrides islands (such as Eigg) and I suspect them to be or to have Jacobite sympathies. Consequently, they would have fought at Culloden with Ranald Macdonald Regiment, and, since they have descendants in France, some should have escaped to France. But these are still mere guess.

Considering that you are so specialised in these matters would it be possible for you to make me sure of which Macquarries fought at Culloden and who was (were?) able to escape to France.

May be details could be found in the Muster Roll of Prince's Army. How can it be purchased ?

A negative answer would show me that I am completely wrong and that I must look for the origins of my ancestor Macquarrie else where, but actually where ?...

Thank you for paying attention to my request and for all information you could give to me.

Sincerely

Philippe Jolly

Col(Ret) Fr. Army

Dear Phillippe

There were seven men (possibly 8) (listed as "other ranks") named MacQuarry (or with names similar to that eg MacWarrie, MacAlquarish, MacQuirry, MacQuarrish) in MacDonald of Clanranald's regiment

Alexander, (aged 37) Farmer, from Fivepenny, Eigg, imprisoned in Edinburgh Castle and on the prison ship "Pamela" at Tilbury before being transported on 20.03.47

Donald (1) (age not given), from Eigg, Imprisoned on the ship "Pamela" and transported on 31.03.47

Donald (2) (age not given) from Eigg Imprisoned at Tilbury and tranported

Donald (3) (aged 25) Imprisoned in Edinburgh Castle and transpored on 31.03.47

It is possible that one of the above duplicates another

John (1) (aged 47) from Eigg Imprisoned in Inverness and transpoted

John (2) (age not given) from Eigg Imprisoned at Inverness and Tilbury and transported

John (3) (age not given) from Eigg Imprisoned at Inverness and Tilbury and transported

John (4) (age not given) Farmer at Galmistill, Eigg Imprisoned in Inverness and on ship "Pamela". Tansported 31.03.47

There were two other men with the name MacQuarrie or MacWarrish. Both called John. One was a surgeon in Clanranald's. The other is listed as his servant. Both were imprisoned in Kelso and Edinburgh and released under General Pardon in 1747.

There are others with names such as Mc Vorrich,Mc Vurrish but these are not from Eigg.

My sources are "Prisoners of the '45. by Bruce Gordon Seton and Jean Gordon Arnot (Published in 1929 and not easy to get hold of) and No Quarter Given (Alastair Livingstone, Christian Aikman and Betty Stuart Hart) Published by Neil Wilson http://www.nwp.co.uk/cgi-bin/cart.cgi

I hope this helps a little and wish you luck with your search. please keep me informed of any conclusions you come to

Regards
Lewie

Sept 22

Hi Lewie

I have just joined the Association and wonder if you can tell me where I could look for references to ordinary Jacobite women who may have joined the Prince's army at Falkirk and would have been stationed around Bannockburn before going up north to Culloden. I am particularly interested in two women - an Agnes MacDonald who was married to Neil MacLeod - one of the MacLeods of Raasay who was banished to Barbados, and a Margaret MacDonald - her mother. I believe Margaret MacDonald came from Skye. After Culloden, nothing more was heard of Agnes MacDonald although the story in the family is that she was killed at Culloden. Her mother, Margaret, returned to either Raasay or Skye and moved to Stirling in 1753 with Agnes' and Neil's son, John. Margaret was a nurse-type healer woman - a henwife.

Hope you can help.

Jan

I will have a think about it but I am not sure I can help. Neil Macleod was indeed in Raasay's reg. He was imprisoned in Inverness and later on HMS Pamela at Tilbury before being transported. He was from Hillach on Raasay and was 21 years old.

As for his wife I know nothing at present. As you will be aware the ordinary women do not get much attention in the literature of the '45

There is of course "Damn Rebel Bitches" by Maggie Craig but that book concentrates on the well known women not those of the rank and file.

Lewie

June 05

Dear Sir

I would be interested in purchasing a replica Jacobite/Stuart banner from the '15 or the '45. Do you know where I might obtain one?

yours faithfully,

Kristian Girling

Dear Kristian

Can anyone help with this? The 1745 Assn does not have such an article for sale

Lewie

April 01

Hi Lewie

On Sunday 25^th July 2010, from 1pm until 5.30pm in the grounds of Braemar Castle there is to be a Jacobite Day to raise awareness and funds for the restoration of the Castle. This will take the shape of an 18^th century fete comprising exhibitions, stalls, and games followed by an hour-long, open air musical drama telling the story of Prince Charles Edward Stuart’s time in the British Isles. We are planning to advertise the day widely throughout the north east of Scotland and are hoping for a large turnout.

We would like to invite the 1745 Association members to have a presence at the fete where you would be free to advertise your own cause while providing some kind of 18^th century activity or exhibition.

The proceeds of the gate will go to support the castle, but stalls raising money through sales or games will be able to keep their profits and all we ask is a donation to castle funds. We do hope that you are able to support this event in some way and we look forward to hearing from you. Please email mjdante@hotmail.co.uk or call me on 41225 if you have any questions or wish to offer your support.

Many thanks.

Marilyn Baker

18 Jan 2010

Hi Lewie
I just sent £21 by paypal for a new joint membership of the 1745 for my husband Richard Baker and me. We look forward to being members.
I would like to take this opportunity to let you know that on Sunday 25th July, we are planning a Jacobite day at Braemar Castle. More details will be available shortly and I hope that you will pass the word on to other members so that they can come and join the celebration.
Many thanks,

Marilyn Baker

Jan 03 2010

Good morning. Just wanted to confirm my new 2010 membership in the 1745 Association, an organization I learned about from reading Christopher Duffy's excellent book in which he mentions the group in his acknowledgements. By way of introduction, my great-grandfather was a native of Dundee who came to America in the 1870s. In the 1970s, I received a Master's degree in history from the University of Aberdeen. A recent trip to Scotland with my wife, my first time back in thirty years, has rekindled an interest in all things Jacobite. I look forward to being a member and will try to faithfully renew each January 1.

Best Wishes,
John D. Mackintosh

Dear John
Thanks for joining the 1745 Association. As far as I can see you are a new member. We hope you enjoy your membership and find it useful. I will inform the Secretary who will send you the latest issue of The Jacobite magazine. Chris Duffy is a member of the Association and regularly attends the Annual Gathering where his company and knowledge is much valued. We hope to see you at a Gathering one day. You probably already know but just in case you might like to cross the State Line to NC where many Jacobites ended up in the years after Culloden. Flora MacDonald is the most famous of course.

Happy New Year to you

Lewie

Lewie,

Yes, I am a new member and would love to attend a gathering at some future date. We are quite proud of our sister state's connections with Flora MacDonald and have visited the battlefield at Moore's Creek where her husband fought in 1776. We visited her grave when we were on Skye in September. Since my days in Aberdeen, I used to work for the South Carolina Archives so if anyone over there is interested in any emigrants to South Carolina with Jacobite connections, please let me know as I might be able to access colonial records pertaining to such individuals.

Thank you again for your welcome. I look forward to reading the latest issue of the Jacobite magazine.

John brparkway@earthlink.net

Dec 12

We have been researching the life and times of Lady Primrose for some years and are always looking for further information.

Some years ago we placed an appeal in 'The Jacobite; asking for information, without result.

Could we ask again within your pages, hoping that the intervening years have introduced further information to the subject?

Many thanks

Regards

Irena and Leslie White.

Bersedrelincourt@aol.com

Dear Les,

Lewie Caw has passed me a copy of your e-mail enquiring for information concerning Lady P.

I trust that you have by now received your copy of The Jacobite 131, and found the article & copy letter, Pp 21-28, of help.

Best regards to you both

Peter

Nov 23

I have been researching the family of Vipond for many years since in fact my father told me that the Viponds in Wales had fled Scotland after the 45 rising. First appearing in Wales in abt 1753 as far as I have found out so far.

However my ancestor were as far as I can tell Church of England. However I am told that not ALL Jacobites were catholic. Three strands of Vipond decedents have said that they moved from Scotland to Wales but I think it was more lightly that they moved from Alston or Garigill [was this part of Scotland or England at this time?] as they were involved in lead mining in both areas. This brings me to one possible connection the Earl of Derwentwater owned the old Vipont estate which included Alstone via several female lines, he lost his head in 1715 so possibly some Viponds from around Alston joined the battle. It is also possible that when the Jacobites marched south in 1745 that some Viponds may have joined up with the revolution in its march south.

I just wondered if there are any lists of the solders who were involved in any of the Jacobite risings and whether any Thomas or Joseph Vipond [Vipon Vepon etc] or whether you know of any other Vipond connection to the Jacobites. I have my info on the Viponds on my web site www.Vieuxpont.co.uk

Many thanks,

David Thomas

Dear David

I don't think I can help you I am sorry to say. One of the two best books detailing the men who fought on the Jacobite side in 1745/6 is "No Quarter Given, The Muster Roll of Prince Charles Edward Stuart's Army 1745-46". It is on the website www.1745Association.org.uk . It is in print. The other is "Prisoners of the '45" published in three vols in 1928 and quite difficult to get hold of. I have both books and am sorry to tell you that there is no mention of a soldier named Vipond or anything close to that in either. The books are not infallible of course but they are pretty comprehensive.

I will post your letter on the website and hope that someone comes up with something. I also recommend you to a Yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jacobite/. Thee are lots of people here with vast knowledge. Join, post your question and see what you get.

Lewie

Sept 25

Hi,

at the time of the opening of the new Culloden centre a letter came home to all pupils about ancestors being at Culloden. Though I had an idea that I (my 8 year old) had an ancestor there I had no proof, even after checking every name in ‘No Quarter given’. I persevered by finding the names of the small community that were involved and tried working the other way, again no proof. I tried scotland ’s people and ancestor .com and latter day saints again no proof.

I do have a distant ancestor famous for the Christain Watt papers and I was able to tie in my GGGG grandfather to her father. This led into her family tree which takes us back to the Lord Saltoun Fraser of Philorth.

From the book of her diaries

The Christain Watt Papers edited by David Fraser cousin of Lady Saltoun ISBN 086228 047 8P6

.’’His other Grandson, David Lascelles, was a valet to Charles Fraser of Inverallochy:both were killed at the battle of Culloden Moor .’’

I found in ’No Quarter Given’ P117 reference to Charles Fraser of Inverallochy as killed but possibly escaped to Sweden but with no reference to David Lacelles (brother of William Lascelles last Constable of Brodsea).

There is also a family (not Blood) connection between Charles Fraser and David Lascelles.

Is any of this of interest to the association?

Regards,

Jim Ritchie

PS on P8 there is also a narrative on the aftermath of Culloden with the ‘houses’ being raided by a garrison of ‘flemish’ soldiers garrisoned at PITSLIGO CASTLE written by William Lascelles.

I also found as part of my ‘research’ letters in Tain library written just before and after the battle which seem to indicate that the battle was an inconvenience to some locals(Royal Burgh of Tain)

Dear Jim,

I was most interested to receive your query and to learn that

you have a distant ancestor connected with Christian Watt. I have a copy

of her papers which I have read. I have taken note of the name David

Lacelles. A new edition of The Muster Roll was printed last year which

now includes an index. Fraser of Inverallochy was killed at Culloden

and the note in the Muster Roll is inaccurate. I have the book of Fraser

Papers and I checked there. I remember Christian Watts mentioned

in her papers the fact that young Inverallochy was killed on the moor.

The raid on the houses by soldiers from Pitsligo castle would be the search

for Lord Pitsligo. Have you ever read the narrative of the Wanderings

of Lord Pitsligo after Culloden? It may be difficult to obtain now. it was

written by a local person.

Please send me your postal address.

Kindest Regards,

Christian Aikman (Hon Secy)

Nov 23

I have been researching the family of Vipond for many years since in fact my father told me that the Viponds in Wales had fled Scotland after the '45 rising. First appearing in Wales in abt 1753 as far as I have found out so far.

However my ancestors were, as far as I can tell, Church of England. However I am told that not ALL Jacobites were Catholic. Three strands of Vipond descedents have said that they moved from Scotland to Wales but I think it was more likely that they moved from Alston or Garigill [was this part of Scotland or England at this time?] as they were involved in lead mining in both areas. This brings me to one possible connection the Earl of Derwentwater owned the old Vipont estate which included Alstone via several female lines, he lost his head in 1715 so possibly some Viponds from around Alston joined the battle. It is also possible that when the Jacobites marched south in 1745 that some Viponds may have joined up with the revolution in its march south.

Many thanks,

David Thomas

Hi David

I don't think I can help you I am sorry to say. The two best books detailing the men who fought on the Jacobite side in 1745/6 are "No Quarter Given"

July 19

Hello Lewie

Whilst researching my family tree I discovered my ancestor John Rowbottom (various spellings) was executed at Penrith on 28 Oct. 1746. John was a carpenter from Manchester who joined the Manchester Regiment to fight for the Stuart cause. From a site "Book of Days" I have found a copy of a memorial to the Jacobite party. It is an impression taken from a secretly engraved plate. The plate, in the form of a rose, has five outer petals. Each petal contains six names; each a prisoner executed. The inner petals show five senior ranks and the words "Martyred for K & Country, 1746". My ancestor John can be found in the first petal up from the bottom on the left hand side, (the one marked BORN FEB 23 1725), He is located in the middle of the inner three inscriptions.

I also have a copy of John's last words and dying speech and have transcribed it using the same spellings etc as the original. He was thirty-five when executed. Would he be buried in Penrith?

Dear Pat

Finding your Jacobite ancestor must have been very exiting for you.

John Rowbottom, (Rowbotham, Rubuthen) was indeed a soldier in Prince Charles Edward's Manchester Regiment. He is listed in both "No Quarter Given The Muster Roll of Prince Charles Edward Stuart's Army 1745-46" and also "Prisoners of the Forty-Five"

John was a Sergeant in the Regiment and was taken prisoner on 30 Dec 1745 at Carlisle and executed in Penrith on 28 Oct 1746. Other executed with him were Valentine Holt, Philip Hunt, Andrew Swann the Rev. Robert Lyon, James Harvey and Capt. David Home. All were members of the Manchester Reg,

John Rowbotham's trial was held on 9th Sept 1746 when he was sentenced to death. Detail can be found in the Domestic State Papers and also in the Scots Magazine for Sept 1746 pages 438 and 497. Quite where he is buried I do not know but presumably Penrith

Three others sentenced to hang on the same day were reprieved. These were Alexander Anderson, Piper James Campbell (or MacGregor) and Robert Randal. These three were not in the Manchester Reg.

Lewie

Dear Lewie

I obtained a copy of John Rowbottom's last dying speech from Preston Records Office (this document has a copyright attached) it is headed, "LANCASTER SAINT PETER'S ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, Charities, Wills and Personal Documents Ref RCLN 1746. John was captured at Carlisle Castle having been one of the soldiers who Bonnie Prince Charlie left to defend the Castle whilst he returned to Scotland to raise an army, which you will know never materialized. John had joined the Manchester Regiment when they were recruiting there for the Jacobite cause. I also have a list of other prisoners who were executed at Penrith, Harraby near Carlisle and Brampton. From a site called The Book of Days I found an article referring to a plaque deemed to have been executed by one of the foremost engravers Robert Strange (1725-92), he also fought the Jacobite cause. The plaque was either beaten copper or silver, in the shape of a rose and the petals contain the name of thirty five prisoners executed, my John is one.

I recently paid a visit to Carlisle Castle and took with me my documents. The person on reception recommended I go and see the Carlisle Records Office Archivist (they are housed at the Castle). He agreed to see me and to my surprise he told me that I had found something that neither they nor the Castle Archives knew anything about. He took copies except the dying speech as he could get that himself from Preston. He also suggested that I went to see the Castle Archivist, which I did. He told me something interesting; after the first execution at Carlisle the town folk were sick of the slaughter and war and wanted nothing more to do with it. The remaining prisoners were made to draw lots for execution: my John must have drawn the short straw.

There is a small exhibition dedicated to the uprising on the third floor of the Castle and, sadly, although they mention the Prince's progress through England there is no mention of the Manchester Regiment and I feel this should be rectified. The Archivist said that next time they hold a larger exhibition, which they compile every so often, they will include John.

I would dearly love to know if there are any details of the trials, though as John pleaded guilty he may not have been tried also would there have been any papers or broadsheets at that time that may have reported the incidents.

Any advice on where to go further would be appreciated.

Regards,

Pat Crawford

I wonder if this plaque still exists and if so where it is now? Any ideas anyone? You will note the names of Princes Charles Edward and Henry Benedict together with their dates of birth at the edges of the plaque.

The names are not very easy to read but in the central area I can make out. the names of Col. Francis Townley (commander of the Manchester Reg., executed 30 July '46.), Capt. Sir Archibald Primrose of Dunipace (Cavalry -Hussars, executed 15 Nov '46) John Hamilton (Governor of Carlisle Castle: Executed 15 Nov '46)

There is also a Morgan in the central boss. The only Morgan I know of who was executed was David of the Manchester Reg. (executed 30 July '46 at Kennington London)

Lastly in the central boss is Buchanan. Is this Francis of Arnprior (executed 19 Oct '46 at Carlisle)?

Any thoughts or further examination of the names will be welcome.

Plaque attributed to Robert Strange

Dear Lewie

I thought all along that John was a Catholic. St. Anne's Church, Manchester (not Catholic) had their Dean Thomas Coppach (various spellings) executed on the 18th October 1746 at Carlisle, he was reputed to have preached sermons at the church in support of the Jacobites. There is still a plaque at the church to commemorate his death.

The Catholic part answers a puzzle I have had for some time, I cannot find the baptism of his Son William (1735) my 5xGreat Grandfather so if he was baptised Catholic it could have been done in secret. John was baptised at Manchester Cathedral (then the Collegiate College) on the 8th July 1711, this corresponds with his age on the dying speech. There are about four possible Marriages but I do know his Brother William Married a Elizabeth Collier from Eccles and the family ended up living in the area mainly Worsley. I wonder if after John's execution they were made to swear allegiance to the crown and if John became a Catholic later in life.

I look forward to seeing my story in print and hope someone can throw more information on John. I will pass all you have told me to three other ladies who are also researching the Rowbottom family tree. My Mothers maiden name was Rheubottom another spelling of the name, it only changed to this about the middle 1800's on the Census, I think that as some were illiterate the Enumerator spelt the name as it sounded, he must have learned to spell rheumatism at school.

Kind regards.

Pat Crawford

Dear Lewie,

I am writing as I am interested to learn more of the Buchanans involved in the events of 1745 with Prince Charles Stuart. I would be grateful for any info available please.

I was very interested in the item on your webpage http://www.1745association. org.uk/Letter%20page.htm about the Robert Strange plaque. This shows a Buchanan and I would like to get a better picture of the plaque please?

Is there any more information about this plaque please, eg. where is it located?

As to this being a reference to Francis of Arnprior I am not sure as I will need to recheck the dates from our clan genealogy. Do you know why it is thought that this might be Francis?

I look forward to your advice.

Yours sincerely,

Hi Lewie,

Thank you very much for getting back to me.

I have had a closer look at the picture you sent. It appears that there is an initial “K” or “R” or, perhaps “F” next to “Buchanan.”

If it is an “F” then you are probably correct in assuming that it was Francis Buchanan of Arnprior as he was executed at Carlisle.

If it is a “K” or “R” then I don’t have any other information about who this Buchanan could be.

A higher resolution image would assist.

Pity about the computer crash. I too suffered a similar fate some time ago and it took ages to recover only part of the material lost.

Is there a chance that the National Museum of Scotland knows anything of this plaque?

I have found references to 4 Buchanans that were involved in some way with the Prince’s activities. Do you have any additional info about the Buchanans other than Francis please? I wish to write an article about them and am doing some research into them. I have the following info:

· Two Buchanans served in the Duke of Perth’s regiment:

o Alexander Buchanan b. 1728, Son of the Laird of Auchleishie, Callander, Perthshire, Sterlingshire. Jacobite Captain in the Duke's Regiment, prisoner at Perth, Canongate, Carlisle, Ship, and London, transported 22 April 1747 from Liverpool to the Colony of Maryland on the ship "Johnson."

o John Buchanan, servant to Alexander Buchanan, resident Auchterarder, Perthshire, Jacobite in the Duke's Regiment, prisoner at Auchterarder, Stirling, Carlisle, transported on the ship "Gildart," 24 Feb 1747 to the Colony of Maryland.

· Francis Buchanan of Arnprior, born circa 1700, marriage: Elizabeth Buchanan, 15th of Leny, died: executed for his role as a Jacobite (on unsubstantiated opinion) 18 October 1746, Carlisle, Cumbria, England, at age 46. It is said that he received a ruby ring and sword from Prince Charlie (hence he probably was an influential Jacobite). The sword is said to be in the possession of the Chief of the McNabs.

· A Buchanan was on the ship from France as one of the Prince’s entourage.

I tried to match the names on the plaque against info from the History of the Highlands by James Browne, 1843, p 356-, but found it difficult to match them because of the resolution.

Browne lists the men executed at Carlisle as Thomas Coppock, (created bishop of Carlisle by Charles), John Henderson, John Macnaughton, James Brand, Conald Macdonald of Tyerndrich, Donald Macdonald of Kinlochmoidart, Francis Buchanan of Arnprior, Hugh Cameron and Edward Roper. Six were executed at Brampton on the twenty-first of the same month, viz; Peter Taylor, Michael Delaird, James Innes, Donald Macdonald, Peter Lindsay and Thomas Park. The following seven suffered at Penrith, viz. David Home, Andrew Swan, Philip Hunt, Robert Lyon, James Harvey, John Roebotham, and Valentine Hold. Seven out of the thirty were reprieved, and one died in prison. On the first of November ten of the prisoners condemned at York suffered in that city. The names of these were Captain George Hamilton, who had been taken at Clifton, Edward Clavering, Daniel Fraser, Charles Gordon, Benjamin Mason, James Mayne, William Conolly, William Dempsey, Angus Macdonald and James Sparke. And on the eighth of the same month, the eleven following suffered the same fate, viz. David Roe, William Hunter, John Endsworth, John Maclellan, John Macgregor, Simon Mackenzie, Alexander Parker, Thomas Magrinnes, Archibald Kennedy, James Thomson and Michael Brady..... at Carlisle on the fifteenth of December by the immolation of eleven more victims, namely, Sir Archibald Primrose of Dunnipace, Charles Gordon of Dalpersy, Patraick Murray, Alexander Stevenson, Robert Reid, Patrick Keir, John Wallace, James Michel, Molineaux Eaton, Thomas Hays and Barnaby Matthews.

Thank you for your help,

Malcolm Buchanan

Clan Buchanan Oceania

Malcolm Buchanan

Convenor

Clan Buchanan, Oceania

clan.buchanan@hotmail.com

http://clanbuchanan.spruz.com/

Dear Malcolm

First let me apologise for my tardy reply. I have been rather neglecting the website recently. Been a busy year so far.

I have attached the only image of the plaque that I have. I am sorry to say it is only of low resolution. It was sent to me by Pat Crawford. I do not now have her email address. A computer crash put paid to many addresses. (I have now moved to gmail so that addresses are stored on their system not mine!)

I am not being of much help to you but I do not know where the plaque is nor I think does Pat.She is not a member of the 1745 Assn so I have no contact details for her.

The idea that the Buchanan in the centre might be Francis of Arnprior is simple supposition on my part. According to P Charles' muster roll he was a Buchanan who was executed at the right time.

Lewie

Hi Lewie,

Thank you very much for getting back to me.

I have had a closer look at the picture you sent. It appears that there is an initial “K” or “R” or, perhaps “F” next to “Buchanan.”

If it is an “F” then you are probably correct in assuming that it was Francis Buchanan of Arnprior as he was executed at Carlisle.

If it is a “K” or “R” then I don’t have any other information about who this Buchanan could be.

A higher resolution image would assist.

Pity about the computer crash. I too suffered a similar fate some time ago and it took ages to recover only part of the material lost.

Is there a chance that the National Museum of Scotland knows anything of this plaque?

· Two Buchanans served in the Duke of Perth’s regiment:

· A Buchanan was on the ship from France as one of the Prince’s entourage.

I tried to match the names on the plaque against info from the History of the Highlands by James Browne, 1843, p 356-, but found it difficult to match them because of the resolution.

Thank you for your help,

Malcolm Buchanan

Clan Buchanan Oceania

Malcolm

The Muster Roll of Prince Charles' army shows 8 Buchananans

There is also a little here http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/stoz/stewarth5.htm

Alexander, Auchleishie, Callanader. Captain in Duke of Perth's Regiment.Transported to Maryland on 5 Aug 1747 (Both you and the link above have him landing in MD in Aug '47--the voyages could take a very long time of course)

Robert -son of Baillie Buchanan.--Bogcastle Callander also Captain in Perth's Reg Killed Culloden

John (age 22) Soldier in Perth's Reg (Buchnanan's Company) Carrier, Auchterarder.

Patrick Soldier in Perth's Reg. Brewer, Kilmahog.Captured at Carlisle Dec '45 Acquitted Sept '46

(brother of Arnprior)

John Stewarts of Appin Reg Captured. Died in prison

Francis of Arnprior, regiment unknown Leny House Callander Executed 19 Oct '46

John Gordon Of Glenbucket's Reg. Captured Culloden (died?)

John Strathallan's Perthshire Horse. Servant to Balachallan

Prisoners of the '45 has

John Stewarts of Appin (as above) Imprisoned in Inverness and also on the ship Alexander and James at Tilbury

John Glenbuckets (as above) Inverness

John-- "A dragoon of General Hamilton's Reg Imprisoned 13 Jan '46 Linlithgow and later (20 Jan '46) at Leith. Discharged from prison by order of Col Whitney and handed over to the military as a deserter.". Not sure about this one. Is he the same man as the one in Strthallan's horse I wonder?

John Perth's (as above) age 22. Imprisoned in Stirling Castle and also Carlisle. Transported Servant of Alexander Buchanan

Alexander Perth's (as above) Imprisoned Perth, Canongate, Carlisle and "Jane of Leith" London. Acquitted 13 Nov'46 as he was only 19 yrs old. His servant, John B gave evidence that he had tried to desert several times but was forced back. Despite being acquitted he was transported. Seems odd that he was a Captain at 19 especially if he tried to desert. (Lucky he wasn't shot if true)

Francis (Arnprior) (as above) Arms collected by Murray of Broughton stored at Arnprior's house prior to Prince's arrival in Scotland. Arrested just prior to Culloden

Patrick (as above) Imprisoned at Carlisle. Acquitted 12 Sept '46

That's all I have. Hope it helps

Lewie

April 16 (a fateful day!)

A long shot I know but do you know this gentleman?

He was distinguished in the Jacobite Rising 1745 and may be;

Gen. James Hope.

Gen. John Huske

Gen. James Wolf.

Can you help?

Regards,

Garie Hind owner of the painting.

Hello Garie

I am afraid I do not know who this officer is. I know of Wolfe of course (we might particularly remember him on this of all days). Huske fought at Falkirk and Culloden but you have the better of me with General Hope. I do not know who he was.

Your painting is interesting. Who painted it? and what make you think it is of a Hanoverian officer of the '45? I am not doubting you; just would like to know.

I will place the picture on our website and see if anyone comes up with anything

Lewie

Hi Lewie

Many thanks for getting back to me.

The men I suggest in my e-mail were given to me people within this field of knowledge

In their view the officer may be any of them!

Regards,

Garie.

April 06 2009

From Ms Liz Hodgson in Lazonby, Ciumbria (received by Royal Mail)

Dear Lewie

I am researching our village and I came accross Jacobite rebels. In the Easter of 1746. twenty rebels were transported from Penrith to Brough. Men from Lazonby travelled with them. Where would they go after that and is it possible to find out what happened to them. Thank you

Liz Hodgson

Hello Liz

I have no idea what your knowledge of the Jacobite Rising of 1745/6 is so I'll be basic and if you all ready know then there is no harm done

I have no information for you that specifically relates to the 20 prisoners you mention so can only make general comments and perhaps point you in the right direction

The prisoners transported from Penrith to Brough in Easter 1746 had almost certainly been prisoners for some time. Easter Sunday 1746 was 10 April and this is almost at the effective end of the rising (Culloden 16 April 1746). The Jacobite army passed througn Perith on the reatreat from Derby in Dec. 1745. Upon leaving Carlisle on 20 Dec Prince Charlie decided to leave a body of men to defend the town. The men chosen for this impossible task were the Manchester regiment commanded by Francis Townley and a couple of hundred Highlanders commanded by John Hamilton. The men of the Manchester Reg were mostly English and recruited on the army's march south.

Carlise fell to the Duke of Cumberland on 30 Dec and the garrison was taken prisoner. Your twenty were probably among them. The prisoners were held in Carlisle Castle for a time. Many men of the Manchester Reg were taken to Lancaster and Chester but that was in Jan 1746.

I have a list of names of many in The Manchester Regiment. If you have any names of the 20 men I will look them up and see if I can tell you more

You might like to read

Prince Charlie and the Borderland by David Johnstone Beattie

Sorry not to be of more help. If you can give me further info. I'll do my best

Lewie

Hello Lewie

Thank you for the info.

Here is the list of men I found taken to Brough by the men of Lazonby

Thomas Thompson

John Grundall

Joseph James

Robert Abbot

Joseph Abbot

Thomas Bell

John Boak

Joseph Thompson

Edward Bargett

Thomas Mattinson

Thomas Relf

Frances Henderson

James Nelson

Richard Potter

James Wiseman

Isaac Lowrance

Robert Grundell

Walter Scott

Joseph Bell

All except one I think were local as the same names appear later on a list of subscribers to the local bridge.

If I find out what happened to them I will be able to know if they are the same or children of the rebels.

I know a little about the Jacobites and at the moment I am putting together the story of the local bridge that was eventually built in 1762 having first been proposed in 1739.

Liz Hodgson

Hi Liz

Well I am afraid I am in a bit of a quandry here.

I possess two books which are definitive texts on these matters. One is "Prisoners of the Forty-five" by Bruce Gordon Seton published in 1929. It is in three volumes and lists 3471 men who were taken prisoner during or after the 1745 Rising. I also have "No Quarter Given - The Muster Roll of Prince Charles Edward Stuart's Army 1745-46" by Christian Aikman and others. This lists soldiers by regiment.

Unfortunately only two names you provided are listed in either book. The two listed are Thomas Thompson who was taken prisoner on 30 Dec 1745 at Carlisle. There is no record of what happened to him. The name is a common one and so the two men may not be one and the same. The other name is Francis Henderson (not Frances as you list-usually a female name) Francis was imprisoned in Dundee and eventually released on bail. (He is not likely to be your man).

I am interested in whence your information comes. If you can give me your source I should be grateful.

One of my thoughts is that if these men were Jacobite prisoners in 1746 then they must have been fairly well-to-do men if they also contributed sufficient money to be mentioned as sponsors of your bridge. As such it is not likely they were run of the mill soldiers. Many men who were recruited for the Manchester Regiment simply joined up for the pay! Important men were executed or transported and not given the opportunity to sponsor bridges!

So either your sources are mis-informed or you have discovered Jacobite prisoners not previously known.

I suppose it is just possible that your 20 men were prisoners from the Rising of 1715 but I think it very unlikely.

Lewie

Hello Lewie

Thank you for you help, I found the names in a book by Robert .C .Jarvis published in 1954.

The Jacobite risings of 1715 and 1745.

In it were listed local Quarter sessions including 246- Easter 1746

The men were listed as Rebels.

All the best.

Liz Hodgson

Ah! That's interesting. Rupert Jarvis is a very well respected author. I have his collected Papers on the Jacobite Risings but unfortunately not The Jacobite risings of 1715 and 1745

However I think I know someone who may do, so will make further enquiries

Lewie

Any thoughts anyone??

27 Jan 2009

From Mr Jamie Boulton

Hello sir

I have been looking at your website with great interest, my name is Jamie and I am currently a history student at Staffordshire university. This semester one of my projects is a look at a global event has impact the local area and i am looking at a local rumour that on the way to Derby the Jacobite army passed through Biddulph and Leek in the Staffordshire moorlands, and that another unit led by Lord George Murray trying to convince Cumberland they were heading to Wales passed through Congleton and then through Biddulph and Leek on its way to Derby to meet up with the main force and then they all came back this way on the way home.

So far I have some notes from local historians one of whom has been quite detailed but died before he could reference his work and so for all we know could be pure fiction. There are some remnants of the army stored by Leek council such as playing cards and so on and a family based in Biddulph in the Victorian age have written in there papers that artifacts of the Jacobite army were found in Biddulph moor but I am yet to locate them.

Anyway the purpose of email is to see if you have any information or can steer me to any information which could corroborate any of these accounts

Any help would be much appreciated

Yours sincerely

Jamie Boulton

Dear Jamie

Books I recommend for your study

The Jacobite Army in England by Frank McLynn (Chapters six & seven)

The '45 by Christopher Duffy (pp 283-317)

An interesting book (but more difficult to get) is "Witness to Rebellion" by Iain Gordon Brown & Hugh Cheape. It is a diary by John Mac;lean who marched with the Jacobites and was with Lord George Murray in Congleton.

The Jacobite army certainly passed through Leek Here a few lines from my book "Walking with Charlie"

the centre of Leek where tradition has it that Prince Charles stayed in Mr Mills’ house on the north side of the Market Place. The building still exists as 2-4 Church Street and the ground floor is used as a shop. Contemporary accounts describe the main part of the Jacobite army as a sorry looking band of men. ‘The greater part were such poor, shabby, lousey, diminutive creatures. Grey beards and no beards; old men fit to drop into the grave, and young boys whose swords were nearly equal to their own weight.’ The sight of soldiers dressed in kilts seems to have been the cause of some confusion if not amusement and derision; one observer describing the Highlanders as ‘men with petticoats on.’

After a mile and a half a path led me to a weir on the River Dove. I followed the river for a while and then headed for Mayfield, a village certainly visited by the Jacobite army in retreat and probably on the way south as well. John Maclean of Kingairloch notes that his brigade was ‘billeted in a Countrey place Called upper Mayfield in a Nook of Staffordshire.’ The guide to Mayfield’s St John the Baptist Parish Church comments that as the Jacobites passed through they shot a local innkeeper and Mr Humphrey Brown who refused to hand over his horse. Some of the terrified population took refuge in the church and although the rebels did not break down the church door they did fire a number of shots at it. The bullet holes in the west door are still visible. From Mayfield I found my way to St Oswald’s hospital in Ashbourne and then along Belle Vue Road to the centre of town. A plaque on the Town Hall reads, ‘At Ashbourne on December 3rd 1745 Charles Edward Stuart declared his father James, King of England, Wales and Scotland’ (Walking with Charlie -Steve Lord)

The journal of John Maclean of Kingairloch mentions Mackworth and Brailsford on his route from Ashbourne to Derby.

Wednesday the 4 December we marched from Ashburn & passed through Brilsford a Countrey Long Town and at severall houses we saw White flags hanging out Such as Napkins and white Aprons, and in the Gavels of Some houses white Cockades fixed. After that we passed ane other town called Macwith and they had a Bonefire in the Middle of the Town, and as oft as a Captain of a Company passed by the Whole Croud of the town who were gathered about that fire Gave a huza and the men waving their hats.

However I know of no authority, author etc who has the army passing through Biddulph. That does not mean that no Jacobites were ever in Biddulph, just not the main army. Your late local historian may well be correct in what he says. However you must bear in mind that "Bonnie Prince Charlie" has developed a sort of romantic aura over the years. There are more locks of his hair and caves that he slept in than you can shake a stick at. So the "Jacobite artifacts" on Biddulph moor may not be Jacobite at all, just of the period perhaps. Who knows?

While the Jacobites were still in Macclesfield they worried that the Hanoverian army was so positioned that it could march to cut off Jacobite progress whether towards Wales or Derby. As such Lord George Murray took off a fairly hefty diversionary force to Congleton and then sent Kilmarnock and Ker with a few men, south through Astbury and Church Lawton towards Newcastle under Lyme. The Duke of Cumberland responded, eventually stationing his army just north of Stone. The Jacobites never arrived to fight. The way now being clear for the main body to march to Derby they did so and Lord George's diversionary force peeled off to the east under Cloud to Rushton Spencer and then more or less along the line of the modern A523 to Leek. They retreated the same way. No Biddulph I'm afraid!

I'm not sure how wide the "local area" is but on the retreat the Jacobite shot the landlord of the Hanging Bridge Inn (near Mayfield) It's in Derbys but should be local enough http://www.ashbourne-town.com/villages/mayfield/index.html

Hope this is helpful and good luck with your studies

Lewie

PS Any readers of this website with news of Jacobite army in Biddulph?

Back to 1745 Association Homepage