Letters to Lewie

The 1745 Association Click the Highlander

Letters to Lewie

Jacobite Monument at Glenfinnan

This is a place to which members (and others) may write letters to the 1745 Association.

Webmaster Lewie Caw welcomes your correspondence. He prefers email to Letters to Lewie but will accept snailmail to:

Lewie Caw,

2 Mill St,

Eynsham, Witney,

Oxon, OX29 4JS

Letters will not be accepted without the name of the writer.

The name of the writer will be published.

Geographical addresses will not be published.

Email addresses will not be published unless the writer requests otherwise.

Lewie reserves the right to edit letters and to publish or not at his own discretion. Please try to keep your letters fairly short.

At present and until further notice letters will be removed from the site one month after publication. However, all letters will be archived for possible future reference.

June 05

Dear Sir

I would be interested in purchasing a replica Jacobite/Stuart banner from the '15 or the '45. Do you know where I might obtain one?

yours faithfully,

Kristian Girling

Dear Kristian

Can anyone help with this? The 1745 Assn does not have such an article for sale

Lewie

April 01

Hi Lewie

On Sunday 25^th July 2010, from 1pm until 5.30pm in the grounds of Braemar Castle there is to be a Jacobite Day to raise awareness and funds for the restoration of the Castle. This will take the shape of an 18^th century fete comprising exhibitions, stalls, and games followed by an hour-long, open air musical drama telling the story of Prince Charles Edward Stuart’s time in the British Isles. We are planning to advertise the day widely throughout the north east of Scotland and are hoping for a large turnout.

We would like to invite the 1745 Association members to have a presence at the fete where you would be free to advertise your own cause while providing some kind of 18^th century activity or exhibition.

The proceeds of the gate will go to support the castle, but stalls raising money through sales or games will be able to keep their profits and all we ask is a donation to castle funds. We do hope that you are able to support this event in some way and we look forward to hearing from you. Please email mjdante@hotmail.co.uk or call me on 41225 if you have any questions or wish to offer your support.

Many thanks.

Marilyn Baker

April 01

Dear Lewie,

Hope this finds you well.

Thought you might be able to help me out.. Fiona and I are going to Rome in June to celebrate her graduation, and I wondered whether your travels had taken you inside the Palazzo Muti?

If so, do you, or perhaps the '45 Assoc, have any advice/contacts on how we could get inside? I have it in my mind that its an office building these days, although I may be wrong. Nothing would please me more than being that close to Charlie.

Any info gladly appreciated...

Best wishes,

Arran

Dear Arran

I haven't been inside the palace, only into the vestibule of the entrance. The building is now offices etc. There may be some residential as well I am not sure. I have in the past been in correspondence with someone who has been inside but I am sorry to say I cannot remember who. I will ask about and put your letter on the website. Maybe someone will spot it and have some info. I see no reason why if your are persistent enough and your Italian is up to it you should not gain access to some part of the building. It is not used for anything terribly important or secret etc.

You should also go to Frascati if you have time. Very close to Rome (short train journey) The place is full of memorials etc to Henry. Checkout Noel McFerran's site http://www.jacobite.ca/gazetteer/Frascati/index.htm

Sounds like a great trip for you. My regards to you both and congratulations to Fiona

Lewie

Anyone with any thoughts about entrance to Palazzo Muti?

18 Jan 2010

Hi Lewie
I just sent £21 by paypal for a new joint membership of the 1745 for my husband Richard Baker and me. We look forward to being members.
I would like to take this opportunity to let you know that on Sunday 25th July, we are planning a Jacobite day at Braemar Castle. More details will be available shortly and I hope that you will pass the word on to other members so that they can come and join the celebration.
Many thanks,

Marilyn Baker

Jan 03 2010

Good morning. Just wanted to confirm my new 2010 membership in the 1745 Association, an organization I learned about from reading Christopher Duffy's excellent book in which he mentions the group in his acknowledgements. By way of introduction, my great-grandfather was a native of Dundee who came to America in the 1870s. In the 1970s, I received a Master's degree in history from the University of Aberdeen. A recent trip to Scotland with my wife, my first time back in thirty years, has rekindled an interest in all things Jacobite. I look forward to being a member and will try to faithfully renew each January 1.

Best Wishes,
John D. Mackintosh

Dear John
Thanks for joining the 1745 Association. As far as I can see you are a new member. We hope you enjoy your membership and find it useful. I will inform the Secretary who will send you the latest issue of The Jacobite magazine. Chris Duffy is a member of the Association and regularly attends the Annual Gathering where his company and knowledge is much valued. We hope to see you at a Gathering one day. You probably already know but just in case you might like to cross the State Line to NC where many Jacobites ended up in the years after Culloden. Flora MacDonald is the most famous of course.

Happy New Year to you

Lewie

Lewie,

Yes, I am a new member and would love to attend a gathering at some future date. We are quite proud of our sister state's connections with Flora MacDonald and have visited the battlefield at Moore's Creek where her husband fought in 1776. We visited her grave when we were on Skye in September. Since my days in Aberdeen, I used to work for the South Carolina Archives so if anyone over there is interested in any emigrants to South Carolina with Jacobite connections, please let me know as I might be able to access colonial records pertaining to such individuals.

Thank you again for your welcome. I look forward to reading the latest issue of the Jacobite magazine.

John brparkway@earthlink.net

Dec 12

We have been researching the life and times of Lady Primrose for some years and are always looking for further information.

Some years ago we placed an appeal in 'The Jacobite; asking for information, without result.

Could we ask again within your pages, hoping that the intervening years have introduced further information to the subject?

Many thanks

Regards

Irena and Leslie White.

Bersedrelincourt@aol.com

Dear Les,

Lewie Caw has passed me a copy of your e-mail enquiring for information concerning Lady P.

I trust that you have by now received your copy of The Jacobite 131, and found the article & copy letter, Pp 21-28, of help.

Best regards to you both

Peter

Nov 23

I have been researching the family of Vipond for many years since in fact my father told me that the Viponds in Wales had fled Scotland after the 45 rising. First appearing in Wales in abt 1753 as far as I have found out so far.

However my ancestor were as far as I can tell Church of England. However I am told that not ALL Jacobites were catholic. Three strands of Vipond decedents have said that they moved from Scotland to Wales but I think it was more lightly that they moved from Alston or Garigill [was this part of Scotland or England at this time?] as they were involved in lead mining in both areas. This brings me to one possible connection the Earl of Derwentwater owned the old Vipont estate which included Alstone via several female lines, he lost his head in 1715 so possibly some Viponds from around Alston joined the battle. It is also possible that when the Jacobites marched south in 1745 that some Viponds may have joined up with the revolution in its march south.

I just wondered if there are any lists of the solders who were involved in any of the Jacobite risings and whether any Thomas or Joseph Vipond [Vipon Vepon etc] or whether you know of any other Vipond connection to the Jacobites. I have my info on the Viponds on my web site www.Vieuxpont.co.uk

Many thanks,

David Thomas

Dear David

I don't think I can help you I am sorry to say. One of the two best books detailing the men who fought on the Jacobite side in 1745/6 is "No Quarter Given, The Muster Roll of Prince Charles Edward Stuart's Army 1745-46". It is on the website www.1745Association.org.uk . It is in print. The other is "Prisoners of the '45" published in three vols in 1928 and quite difficult to get hold of. I have both books and am sorry to tell you that there is no mention of a soldier named Vipond or anything close to that in either. The books are not infallible of course but they are pretty comprehensive.

I will post your letter on the website and hope that someone comes up with something. I also recommend you to a Yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jacobite/. Thee are lots of people here with vast knowledge. Join, post your question and see what you get.

Lewie

Sept 25

Hi,

at the time of the opening of the new Culloden centre a letter came home to all pupils about ancestors being at Culloden. Though I had an idea that I (my 8 year old) had an ancestor there I had no proof, even after checking every name in ‘No Quarter given’. I persevered by finding the names of the small community that were involved and tried working the other way, again no proof. I tried scotland ’s people and ancestor .com and latter day saints again no proof.

I do have a distant ancestor famous for the Christain Watt papers and I was able to tie in my GGGG grandfather to her father. This led into her family tree which takes us back to the Lord Saltoun Fraser of Philorth.

From the book of her diaries

The Christain Watt Papers edited by David Fraser cousin of Lady Saltoun ISBN 086228 047 8P6

.’’His other Grandson, David Lascelles, was a valet to Charles Fraser of Inverallochy:both were killed at the battle of Culloden Moor .’’

I found in ’No Quarter Given’ P117 reference to Charles Fraser of Inverallochy as killed but possibly escaped to Sweden but with no reference to David Lacelles (brother of William Lascelles last Constable of Brodsea).

There is also a family (not Blood) connection between Charles Fraser and David Lascelles.

Is any of this of interest to the association?

Regards,

Jim Ritchie

PS on P8 there is also a narrative on the aftermath of Culloden with the ‘houses’ being raided by a garrison of ‘flemish’ soldiers garrisoned at PITSLIGO CASTLE written by William Lascelles.

I also found as part of my ‘research’ letters in Tain library written just before and after the battle which seem to indicate that the battle was an inconvenience to some locals(Royal Burgh of Tain)

Dear Jim,

I was most interested to receive your query and to learn that

you have a distant ancestor connected with Christian Watt. I have a copy

of her papers which I have read. I have taken note of the name David

Lacelles. A new edition of The Muster Roll was printed last year which

now includes an index. Fraser of Inverallochy was killed at Culloden

and the note in the Muster Roll is inaccurate. I have the book of Fraser

Papers and I checked there. I remember Christian Watts mentioned

in her papers the fact that young Inverallochy was killed on the moor.

The raid on the houses by soldiers from Pitsligo castle would be the search

for Lord Pitsligo. Have you ever read the narrative of the Wanderings

of Lord Pitsligo after Culloden? It may be difficult to obtain now. it was

written by a local person.

Please send me your postal address.

Kindest Regards,

Christian Aikman (Hon Secy)

Nov 23

I have been researching the family of Vipond for many years since in fact my father told me that the Viponds in Wales had fled Scotland after the '45 rising. First appearing in Wales in abt 1753 as far as I have found out so far.

However my ancestors were, as far as I can tell, Church of England. However I am told that not ALL Jacobites were Catholic. Three strands of Vipond descedents have said that they moved from Scotland to Wales but I think it was more likely that they moved from Alston or Garigill [was this part of Scotland or England at this time?] as they were involved in lead mining in both areas. This brings me to one possible connection the Earl of Derwentwater owned the old Vipont estate which included Alstone via several female lines, he lost his head in 1715 so possibly some Viponds from around Alston joined the battle. It is also possible that when the Jacobites marched south in 1745 that some Viponds may have joined up with the revolution in its march south.

Many thanks,

David Thomas

Hi David

I don't think I can help you I am sorry to say. The two best books detailing the men who fought on the Jacobite side in 1745/6 are "No Quarter Given"

July 19

Hello Lewie

Whilst researching my family tree I discovered my ancestor John Rowbottom (various spellings) was executed at Penrith on 28 Oct. 1746. John was a carpenter from Manchester who joined the Manchester Regiment to fight for the Stuart cause. From a site "Book of Days" I have found a copy of a memorial to the Jacobite party. It is an impression taken from a secretly engraved plate. The plate, in the form of a rose, has five outer petals. Each petal contains six names; each a prisoner executed. The inner petals show five senior ranks and the words "Martyred for K & Country, 1746". My ancestor John can be found in the first petal up from the bottom on the left hand side, (the one marked BORN FEB 23 1725), He is located in the middle of the inner three inscriptions.

I also have a copy of John's last words and dying speech and have transcribed it using the same spellings etc as the original. He was thirty-five when executed. Would he be buried in Penrith?

Dear Pat

Finding your Jacobite ancestor must have been very exiting for you.

John Rowbottom, (Rowbotham, Rubuthen) was indeed a soldier in Prince Charles Edward's Manchester Regiment. He is listed in both "No Quarter Given The Muster Roll of Prince Charles Edward Stuart's Army 1745-46" and also "Prisoners of the Forty-Five"

John was a Sergeant in the Regiment and was taken prisoner on 30 Dec 1745 at Carlisle and executed in Penrith on 28 Oct 1746. Other executed with him were Valentine Holt, Philip Hunt, Andrew Swann the Rev. Robert Lyon, James Harvey and Capt. David Home. All were members of the Manchester Reg,

John Rowbotham's trial was held on 9th Sept 1746 when he was sentenced to death. Detail can be found in the Domestic State Papers and also in the Scots Magazine for Sept 1746 pages 438 and 497. Quite where he is buried I do not know but presumably Penrith

Three others sentenced to hang on the same day were reprieved. These were Alexander Anderson, Piper James Campbell (or MacGregor) and Robert Randal. These three were not in the Manchester Reg.

Lewie

Dear Lewie

I obtained a copy of John Rowbottom's last dying speech from Preston Records Office (this document has a copyright attached) it is headed, "LANCASTER SAINT PETER'S ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH, Charities, Wills and Personal Documents Ref RCLN 1746. John was captured at Carlisle Castle having been one of the soldiers who Bonnie Prince Charlie left to defend the Castle whilst he returned to Scotland to raise an army, which you will know never materialized. John had joined the Manchester Regiment when they were recruiting there for the Jacobite cause. I also have a list of other prisoners who were executed at Penrith, Harraby near Carlisle and Brampton. From a site called The Book of Days I found an article referring to a plaque deemed to have been executed by one of the foremost engravers Robert Strange (1725-92), he also fought the Jacobite cause. The plaque was either beaten copper or silver, in the shape of a rose and the petals contain the name of thirty five prisoners executed, my John is one.

I recently paid a visit to Carlisle Castle and took with me my documents. The person on reception recommended I go and see the Carlisle Records Office Archivist (they are housed at the Castle). He agreed to see me and to my surprise he told me that I had found something that neither they nor the Castle Archives knew anything about. He took copies except the dying speech as he could get that himself from Preston. He also suggested that I went to see the Castle Archivist, which I did. He told me something interesting; after the first execution at Carlisle the town folk were sick of the slaughter and war and wanted nothing more to do with it. The remaining prisoners were made to draw lots for execution: my John must have drawn the short straw.

There is a small exhibition dedicated to the uprising on the third floor of the Castle and, sadly, although they mention the Prince's progress through England there is no mention of the Manchester Regiment and I feel this should be rectified. The Archivist said that next time they hold a larger exhibition, which they compile every so often, they will include John.

I would dearly love to know if there are any details of the trials, though as John pleaded guilty he may not have been tried also would there have been any papers or broadsheets at that time that may have reported the incidents.

Any advice on where to go further would be appreciated.

Regards,

Pat Crawford

I wonder if this plaque still exists and if so where it is now? Any ideas anyone? You will note the names of Princes Charles Edward and Henry Benedict together with their dates of birth at the edges of the plaque.

The names are not very easy to read but in the central area I can make out. the names of Col. Francis Townley (commander of the Manchester Reg., executed 30 July '46.), Capt. Sir Archibald Primrose of Dunipace (Cavalry -Hussars, executed 15 Nov '46) John Hamilton (Governor of Carlisle Castle: Executed 15 Nov '46)

There is also a Morgan in the central boss. The only Morgan I know of who was executed was David of the Manchester Reg. (executed 30 July '46 at Kennington London)

Lastly in the central boss is Buchanan. Is this Francis of Arnprior (executed 19 Oct '46 at Carlisle)?

Any thoughts or further examination of the names will be welcome. I can send a full resolution image to anyone who wants to examine the plaque in more detail.

Plaque attributed to Robert Strange

Dear Lewie

I thought all along that John was a Catholic. St. Anne's Church, Manchester (not Catholic) had their Dean Thomas Coppach (various spellings) executed on the 18th October 1746 at Carlisle, he was reputed to have preached sermons at the church in support of the Jacobites. There is still a plaque at the church to commemorate his death.

The Catholic part answers a puzzle I have had for some time, I cannot find the baptism of his Son William (1735) my 5xGreat Grandfather so if he was baptised Catholic it could have been done in secret. John was baptised at Manchester Cathedral (then the Collegiate College) on the 8th July 1711, this corresponds with his age on the dying speech. There are about four possible Marriages but I do know his Brother William Married a Elizabeth Collier from Eccles and the family ended up living in the area mainly Worsley. I wonder if after John's execution they were made to swear allegiance to the crown and if John became a Catholic later in life.

I look forward to seeing my story in print and hope someone can throw more information on John. I will pass all you have told me to three other ladies who are also researching the Rowbottom family tree. My Mothers maiden name was Rheubottom another spelling of the name, it only changed to this about the middle 1800's on the Census, I think that as some were illiterate the Enumerator spelt the name as it sounded, he must have learned to spell rheumatism at school.

Kind regards.

Pat Crawford

April 16 (a fateful day!)

A long shot I know but do you know this gentleman?

He was distinguished in the Jacobite Rising 1745 and may be;

Gen. James Hope.

Gen. John Huske

Gen. James Wolf.

Can you help?

Regards,

Garie Hind owner of the painting.

Hello Garie

I am afraid I do not know who this officer is. I know of Wolfe of course (we might particularly remember him on this of all days). Huske fought at Falkirk and Culloden but you have the better of me with General Hope. I do not know who he was.

Your painting is interesting. Who painted it? and what make you think it is of a Hanoverian officer of the '45? I am not doubting you; just would like to know.

I will place the picture on our website and see if anyone comes up with anything

Lewie

Hi Lewie

Many thanks for getting back to me.

The men I suggest in my e-mail were given to me people within this field of knowledge

In their view the officer may be any of them!

Regards,

Garie.

April 06 2009

From Ms Liz Hodgson in Lazonby, Ciumbria (received by Royal Mail)

Dear Lewie

I am researching our village and I came accross Jacobite rebels. In the Easter of 1746. twenty rebels were transported from Penrith to Brough. Men from Lazonby travelled with them. Where would they go after that and is it possible to find out what happened to them. Thank you

Liz Hodgson

Hello Liz

I have no idea what your knowledge of the Jacobite Rising of 1745/6 is so I'll be basic and if you all ready know then there is no harm done

I have no information for you that specifically relates to the 20 prisoners you mention so can only make general comments and perhaps point you in the right direction

The prisoners transported from Penrith to Brough in Easter 1746 had almost certainly been prisoners for some time. Easter Sunday 1746 was 10 April and this is almost at the effective end of the rising (Culloden 16 April 1746). The Jacobite army passed througn Perith on the reatreat from Derby in Dec. 1745. Upon leaving Carlisle on 20 Dec Prince Charlie decided to leave a body of men to defend the town. The men chosen for this impossible task were the Manchester regiment commanded by Francis Townley and a couple of hundred Highlanders commanded by John Hamilton. The men of the Manchester Reg were mostly English and recruited on the army's march south.

Carlise fell to the Duke of Cumberland on 30 Dec and the garrison was taken prisoner. Your twenty were probably among them. The prisoners were held in Carlisle Castle for a time. Many men of the Manchester Reg were taken to Lancaster and Chester but that was in Jan 1746.

I have a list of names of many in The Manchester Regiment. If you have any names of the 20 men I will look them up and see if I can tell you more

You might like to read

Prince Charlie and the Borderland by David Johnstone Beattie

Sorry not to be of more help. If you can give me further info. I'll do my best

Lewie

Hello Lewie

Thank you for the info.

Here is the list of men I found taken to Brough by the men of Lazonby

Thomas Thompson

John Grundall

Joseph James

Robert Abbot

Joseph Abbot

Thomas Bell

John Boak

Joseph Thompson

Edward Bargett

Thomas Mattinson

Thomas Relf

Frances Henderson

James Nelson

Richard Potter

James Wiseman

Isaac Lowrance

Robert Grundell

Walter Scott

Joseph Bell

All except one I think were local as the same names appear later on a list of subscribers to the local bridge.

If I find out what happened to them I will be able to know if they are the same or children of the rebels.

I know a little about the Jacobites and at the moment I am putting together the story of the local bridge that was eventually built in 1762 having first been proposed in 1739.

Liz Hodgson

Hi Liz

Well I am afraid I am in a bit of a quandry here.

I possess two books which are definitive texts on these matters. One is "Prisoners of the Forty-five" by Bruce Gordon Seton published in 1929. It is in three volumes and lists 3471 men who were taken prisoner during or after the 1745 Rising. I also have "No Quarter Given - The Muster Roll of Prince Charles Edward Stuart's Army 1745-46" by Christian Aikman and others. This lists soldiers by regiment.

Unfortunately only two names you provided are listed in either book. The two listed are Thomas Thompson who was taken prisoner on 30 Dec 1745 at Carlisle. There is no record of what happened to him. The name is a common one and so the two men may not be one and the same. The other name is Francis Henderson (not Frances as you list-usually a female name) Francis was imprisoned in Dundee and eventually released on bail. (He is not likely to be your man).

I am interested in whence your information comes. If you can give me your source I should be grateful.

One of my thoughts is that if these men were Jacobite prisoners in 1746 then they must have been fairly well-to-do men if they also contributed sufficient money to be mentioned as sponsors of your bridge. As such it is not likely they were run of the mill soldiers. Many men who were recruited for the Manchester Regiment simply joined up for the pay! Important men were executed or transported and not given the opportunity to sponsor bridges!

So either your sources are mis-informed or you have discovered Jacobite prisoners not previously known.

I suppose it is just possible that your 20 men were prisoners from the Rising of 1715 but I think it very unlikely.

Lewie

Hello Lewie

Thank you for you help, I found the names in a book by Robert .C .Jarvis published in 1954.

The Jacobite risings of 1715 and 1745.

In it were listed local Quarter sessions including 246- Easter 1746

The men were listed as Rebels.

All the best.

Liz Hodgson

Ah! That's interesting. Rupert Jarvis is a very well respected author. I have his collected Papers on the Jacobite Risings but unfortunately not The Jacobite risings of 1715 and 1745

However I think I know someone who may do, so will make further enquiries

Lewie

Any thoughts anyone??

27 Jan 2009

From Mr Jamie Boulton

Hello sir

I have been looking at your website with great interest, my name is Jamie and I am currently a history student at Staffordshire university. This semester one of my projects is a look at a global event has impact the local area and i am looking at a local rumour that on the way to Derby the Jacobite army passed through Biddulph and Leek in the Staffordshire moorlands, and that another unit led by Lord George Murray trying to convince Cumberland they were heading to Wales passed through Congleton and then through Biddulph and Leek on its way to Derby to meet up with the main force and then they all came back this way on the way home.

So far I have some notes from local historians one of whom has been quite detailed but died before he could reference his work and so for all we know could be pure fiction. There are some remnants of the army stored by Leek council such as playing cards and so on and a family based in Biddulph in the Victorian age have written in there papers that artifacts of the Jacobite army were found in Biddulph moor but I am yet to locate them.

Anyway the purpose of email is to see if you have any information or can steer me to any information which could corroborate any of these accounts

Any help would be much appreciated

Yours sincerely

Jamie Boulton

Dear Jamie

Books I recommend for your study

The Jacobite Army in England by Frank McLynn (Chapters six & seven)

The '45 by Christopher Duffy (pp 283-317)

An interesting book (but more difficult to get) is "Witness to Rebellion" by Iain Gordon Brown & Hugh Cheape. It is a diary by John Mac;lean who marched with the Jacobites and was with Lord George Murray in Congleton.

The Jacobite army certainly passed through Leek Here a few lines from my book "Walking with Charlie"

the centre of Leek where tradition has it that Prince Charles stayed in Mr Mills’ house on the north side of the Market Place. The building still exists as 2-4 Church Street and the ground floor is used as a shop. Contemporary accounts describe the main part of the Jacobite army as a sorry looking band of men. ‘The greater part were such poor, shabby, lousey, diminutive creatures. Grey beards and no beards; old men fit to drop into the grave, and young boys whose swords were nearly equal to their own weight.’ The sight of soldiers dressed in kilts seems to have been the cause of some confusion if not amusement and derision; one observer describing the Highlanders as ‘men with petticoats on.’

After a mile and a half a path led me to a weir on the River Dove. I followed the river for a while and then headed for Mayfield, a village certainly visited by the Jacobite army in retreat and probably on the way south as well. John Maclean of Kingairloch notes that his brigade was ‘billeted in a Countrey place Called upper Mayfield in a Nook of Staffordshire.’ The guide to Mayfield’s St John the Baptist Parish Church comments that as the Jacobites passed through they shot a local innkeeper and Mr Humphrey Brown who refused to hand over his horse. Some of the terrified population took refuge in the church and although the rebels did not break down the church door they did fire a number of shots at it. The bullet holes in the west door are still visible. From Mayfield I found my way to St Oswald’s hospital in Ashbourne and then along Belle Vue Road to the centre of town. A plaque on the Town Hall reads, ‘At Ashbourne on December 3rd 1745 Charles Edward Stuart declared his father James, King of England, Wales and Scotland’ (Walking with Charlie -Steve Lord)

The journal of John Maclean of Kingairloch mentions Mackworth and Brailsford on his route from Ashbourne to Derby.

Wednesday the 4 December we marched from Ashburn & passed through Brilsford a Countrey Long Town and at severall houses we saw White flags hanging out Such as Napkins and white Aprons, and in the Gavels of Some houses white Cockades fixed. After that we passed ane other town called Macwith and they had a Bonefire in the Middle of the Town, and as oft as a Captain of a Company passed by the Whole Croud of the town who were gathered about that fire Gave a huza and the men waving their hats.

However I know of no authority, author etc who has the army passing through Biddulph. That does not mean that no Jacobites were ever in Biddulph, just not the main army. Your late local historian may well be correct in what he says. However you must bear in mind that "Bonnie Prince Charlie" has developed a sort of romantic aura over the years. There are more locks of his hair and caves that he slept in than you can shake a stick at. So the "Jacobite artifacts" on Biddulph moor may not be Jacobite at all, just of the period perhaps. Who knows?

While the Jacobites were still in Macclesfield they worried that the Hanoverian army was so positioned that it could march to cut off Jacobite progress whether towards Wales or Derby. As such Lord George Murray took off a fairly hefty diversionary force to Congleton and then sent Kilmarnock and Ker with a few men, south through Astbury and Church Lawton towards Newcastle under Lyme. The Duke of Cumberland responded, eventually stationing his army just north of Stone. The Jacobites never arrived to fight. The way now being clear for the main body to march to Derby they did so and Lord George's diversionary force peeled off to the east under Cloud to Rushton Spencer and then more or less along the line of the modern A523 to Leek. They retreated the same way. No Biddulph I'm afraid!

I'm not sure how wide the "local area" is but on the retreat the Jacobite shot the landlord of the Hanging Bridge Inn (near Mayfield) It's in Derbys but should be local enough http://www.ashbourne-town.com/villages/mayfield/index.html

Hope this is helpful and good luck with your studies

Lewie

PS Any readers of this website with news of Jacobite army in Biddulph?

28 Dec 2008

Lewie,

Thanks for the most attractive website. I'd be grateful if you could put up this letter in case any reader can help me solve a minor historical puzzle?

I am trying to trace a man called James Fitzjames, who was born in London (St. Mary-le-bone) in 1813 and christened there in 1815. His father's name was also James Fitzjames, and his mother was Ann (or Anne) Fitzjames. His profession was given as 'gentleman'. I can't trace any other reference to this family.

As 'James Fitzjames' is quite an unusual name and associated with the Duke of Berwick and his descendents, I'm wondering whether these people might have been descendents of the Duke of Berwick living temporarily in London during the Napoleonic Wars? If anyone reading this can help me, I'd be most appreciative.

With many thanks,

William Battersby william@battersbyfamily.com

This is probably outside the remit of this association and therefore without the knowledge of its members. However, it can do no harm to try so if there is anyone who can help perhaps they would contact Mr Battersby.

Lewie

9. Dec 2008

I enjoyed visiting your 1745 Association website today.

I am writing now with a query. The Jacobite Studies Trust (which has several of your members on its board and management committee) has commissioned me to compile a list of all the Jacobite sites on mainland Britain. It will be the first time this has been done.

It has been going very well - I have been traveling the length and breadth of England and Scotland (haven't got onto Wales yet!) and have discovered many valuable sites, some of them almost unknown.

I have been told that a Miss Aikman at the 1745 Ass. may have some further suggestions for me. Hopefully you will be able to put me in touch with her. If you yourself have any suggestions of sites you think I may have missed, then do let me know as well.

Thanks

Dr Alan Hobson

25. Nov 2008

Dear Mr Caw

I have recently come across a First Edition.....1930, book written by Grant R. Francis, the title of which is "Mary of Scotland".

On looking at your website I see there are two other books listed by the same author. I don't know if ypu or anyone else in the 1745 Association might be interested in it.

Yours sincerely

Y. Bealey

This letter arrived by Royal Mail on about 7th Nov. Unfortunately I was away and did not pick it up until 24 Nov. Should anyone be interested please email me and I will forward Mrs Bealey's address to you.

Lewie

20.11.08

From Mr Robert Andrews

Dear Sir,

I have a copy of, 'A Complete History of the Rebellion' by James Ray which is dated 1755. The book is in quite good condition, except for the fact that the front board is missing and the first couple of pages are a bit dirty (but still quite legible)

Does this book have a value and would it be of interest to your society? I see that you have it listed as 'quite rare'.

Although we live in France we do return to the UK on a regular basis.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Yours sincerely,

Robert & Diane Andrews

Dear Robert & Diane

Ray's "Compleat History" is indeed quite rare although not impossible to obtain. Its availability has recently been increased by a reprint edition published by Kessinger in 2007. That is obtainable from a variety of sources for about £20.00.

The book was originally published in 1749 so your copy is not a first edition. I think your edition of 1755 may have been the second edition and possibly the last edition published until the 2007 reprint. As you can see from this link an excellent copy fetches about £250.00 while a lesser copy is available for £75.00 or so. Prior to the 2007 reprint your copy would have had value simply because even "reading copies" were hard to come by. However, as you will know, condition is everything to collectors and your copy sounds as though it needs a rebind to replace the front board.

Your copy undoubtedly has some value and should anyone in the Association be interested I invite them to contact me and I will forward the details to you.

Lewie

03.11.08

From Mr Robert Colquhoun Dennis.

Dear Lewie

I am an avid reader of the 1745 association website. After visiting the Culloden Experience I find myself agreeing with the article by Christian Aikman in the Jacobite, no, 127, Summer 2008. I wholeheartedly concur with her statement that the aftermath section should be put to the fore-front of the exhibition.' After the Battle' showing the brutality of King George's Army, under the command of the Duke of Cumberland and General Hawley. This was an excuse for ethnic cleansing, score settling, injustice and barbarity on the highland communities by the British army. The National Trust for Scotland should signpost the actual sites of those atrocities - portraying the clans-people who were slaughtered and naming the regiments involved.

Yours sincerely,

Robert Colquhoun Dennis.

30.10.08

From Mr Eoin Og MacIain Stewart

A Lewie choir,

To the best of your knowledge has there been thought given by any person or publisher of a reissue of the vital source material book “The Stewarts of Appin” by Stewart and Stewart?

This rare volume would be invaluable to those researching aspects of our clan before, during, and post the 1745 Rising.

Moran taing!
----

Eoin Og MacIain Stewart

From Mr Eoin Og MacIain Stewart

Dear Lewie,

My thanks for your email and I look forward to serving the Association in any way I can from North America.

I am the Commissioner for the Northwest and Central United States for the Stewart Society in Scotland and “maybe” via this position actively support the goals and objectives of the Association. I’m sure many Society members would be very, very interested, especially those whose fathers hailed from the West Highlands as the Rising touches them in a special place and I, myself, am more familiar with our traditions there.

Again, mòran taing, agus mar sin leat an-dràsda.

`S mise,

Eoin Og
----

26.09.08

From Mr Billy C

Hullo Lewie

About 12 months ago I got in touch re "The Prisoners of the 'Forty Five" and you kindly pointed me in the right direction. Now I cannot find your e-mail! Can you please tell me where I might find this book (again)?

Also, have you had a look at "No Quarter Given" and, if so, how detailed is it in listing the muster roll of the Jacobite army? Has it your recommendation?

Thanks again

Dear Billy C

"Prisoners" is a rare book. It is in 3vols. Best place to look is www.bookfinder.com. Type in the title and Arnot and/or Seton in the author box.

There are two copies available at the moment. Neither is cheap!.

I unhesitatingly recommend "No Quarter Given" for its content. It also has the advantage of being readily available from the publishers Neil Wilson Publishing (www.nwp.co.uk) if you can't find it in the shops.

If you have a specific inquiry you might like to know that I have both "No Quarter "and "Prisoners" in my library.

Lewie

24.09.08

From Bill MacDonald (0131/654/1838)

Dear Lewie

To commemorate the night march of the Jacobite Army on the eve of Culloden , the opening of the new Visitor Centre and above all to raise funds for the work of Combat Stress, the Ex-Services Mental Welfare Society I am planning to walk/run the course of the Baxter's Loch Ness Marathon barefoot and kilted on the night of the 4th./5th. October, the night before the race. The night march was of significance in the outcome of the battle and there is some evidence that if better planned and executed it could have been a critical success for the Jacobites.

CombatStress is at www.combatstress.org.uk It is a registered charity(No.206002) and has an ever-increasing workload supporting and treating the mentally damaged casualties of armed conflict. Further information from Kelita Groom at 01372/841616.

I am hoping to raise funds for CombatStress by this effort and would much appreciate any donations at www.justgiving.com/billmacdonald

15.09.08

From Ms Carolin Schaller

Dear Lewie,

I'm working at an essay with the topic "the battle of Culloden". Therefore I bought many books to find out about the Jacobites, the reasons leading to the battle and the aftermath. I'm stuck on one part, though. My teacher wants to have a part in which I have to write about the aftermath the battle has until today and Scottish people's meaning towards it . Since most of my books are very old and my English is not the very best, I decided to try google, but didn't find any references, but the homepage of your association.

Maybe you could help me with these questions? That would be very kind of you and you'd help me a lot!

Thank you in advance,

best wishes from Würzburg/Germany,

Carolin Schaller

Dear Carolin

Thank you for your letter and let me tell you that your English is considerably better than my German!

The battle has an influence on attitudes even today especially in Scotland. Culloden was the last battle fought on British soil and so for some it has a special significance.

Before 1746 the Highlands of Scotland were difficult to get to. Roads were very poor or non-existent. Society was held together by the clan system with most clans fiercely independent although all nominally owing allegiance to the monarch. The clan system would probably have died out eventually anyway but Culloden and the aftermath certainly speeded up that process.

Today the battle is often seen as a conflict between the English and the Scots and it serves to facilitate the friendly (sometimes!) rivalry between those two nations. Such rivalry is most often expressed at sporting events especially football and rugby. However the battle and indeed the whole Jacobite movement was not England v. Scotland it was a conflict between those who believed the Stuart (and Roman Catholic) dynasty should be returned to the throne and those who believed that the throne rightfully belonged to the Protestant Hanoverian dynasty who were much less directly in line to the throne.

It is true that most of those who wanted the Stuarts were Scots because many Scots were unhappy about the Act of Union that created Great Britain from England (& Wales) and Scotland. However there were many English Jacobites and Many Scottish Hanoverian supporters.

So you can see that today's image of Culloden is not quite true although that picture is often used by groups as diverse as football supporters and politicians.

Another aspect of "Culloden today" is that the whole episode has been romanticised for the tourist industry. Bonnie Prince Charlie is depicted as a brave young man fighting for his family's right to rule. The perceived romantic relationship between the Prince and Flora MacDonald also contributes to the myths that have developed.

The subject is very complex but I hope this helps a little and I wish you well with your essay

Lewie

03.09.08

From Ms Linda Booth

Dear Lewie

Interested by your article on the above - who is a many times great-grandfather of mine. That is, if William Henry really was his son. My own belief is that he was because of Hawley's will.

In it he states:

That he has never married

He leaves £1,000 and some possessions to Elizabeth Toovey's elder son, John (on condition that he does not marry Elizabeth Burkett)

He leaves a life interest in his main property to Elizabeth Toovey which passes to her second son, William, as you saw

I make the assumption that John was older than William because they were both serving in Henry's regiment when he made the will and John was a Lt Col and William was a Captain. Even with the nepotism and purchase of commissions rife in the English Army of the time, this makes it almost certain that William was younger

Because he favours the likely younger son, I reckon it raises the probabilities that John was Mrs Toovey's husband's child and William was Henry's.

However, the man and his will are so eccentric that nothing is guaranteed.

Incidentally, John Toovey and Eilzabeth Burkett married in Hartley Wintney church three months after Henry Hawley died. I wonder if they were disinherited? (There is an online transcription of the parish records of the time - but the ealrier ones - covering the time that the two younger Tooveys were born, seem to be missing)

On a personal note, I got interested in Henry Hawley because I grew up with the family legend - not yet verified or disproved - that I had ancestors on both sides at Culloden. My father was a Macdonald. His parents married in Aberdeen and emigrated to Canada in 1919. But the Macdonald side appears to have originated in Invernes-shire.

The legend also went that both sides missed the actual battle - the Macdonalds because they were making a forced march to be there and Hawley because he was in bed with a mistress. I now know the Hawley part to be fiction as he was very much there and being his usual savage self. The other paris still mythological.

Best Wishes, Linda Booth

Hello Linda

I found your letter very interesting. I should be pleased if you would send me either the transcript of Hawley's will, the link to it, or preferably both. Should you have any more info about Henry I should be pleased to have it or, failing that, perhaps you could point me in the right direction to other sources. I have not tried particularly hard but found that info on the man is a bit thin on the ground.

Regards

Lewie

Dear Lewie,
Here's the transcript.. It's not one I did - another Hawley connection sent it me.
I have a gedcom file if you have genealogy software. But I'll make a report of what I found about the first generations of Hawleys so far.
I have also seen that family tree, which I think is based on heraldry, but don't know if it is more than hearsay. Henry H. is said to have been born in Winchester - but don't think anyone has ever trawled through all the parish registers to look for his baptism (if they have even survived from the 17th century.) I live in West Wales and do not have the resources at present to travel to look at the family papers held by Hampshire records office.
My lineage is that I am descended from Robery Hawley and Louisa Beaufoy's eldest son, Henry. One of their middle sons - William Henry (it just goes on, doesn't it?) was the father of Guy Langford Hawley who was my mother's mother's dad.
There were quite a few with military careers. Robery Hawley was at Waterloo as a Lieutenant. One of his sons, Robert Beaufoy Hawley, served in the Crimea in what later became the Royal Greenjackets. He was responsible for helping modernise the army a bit and is well remembered (unlike old Henry - who was too savage even for his own times). I'll send the report in a later e-mail - it has quotes from a book of Robert Beaufoy Hawley's Crimea letters. The quotes I have chosen are the ones that cast light on his family - but they are good reading and give a picture of what the Crimean War was like for a relatively junior officer.
Anyway, hope you enjoy the will. Best wishes, Linda

Dear Lewie

Just a line or so to say that Robert Beaufoy Hawley served in the 89th Foot, the Royal Irish Fusiliers (2nd Bn) and not in the 4th Bn KRRC in the Crimea. He took over as CO 4th KRRC in the early 1860`s, just thought it was important for descendants of the Hawley family to know. My own Grandfather was in the 4th KRRC for 22 Years in the early 20th Century and Hawleys influence was still very strong even all those years later.

Thanks for your time

I Remain, yours truly

Ken Divall

27.07.08

From Mr Scott Ward (Contact Scott here)

Hi Lewie,

I was wondering if any fellow members can help me with further investigations regarding a sword in my collection, i have a letter from Lord Lyon office informing me the coat of arms on the blade was registered to a Thomas Milne in 1672, the only other info i have it was used by his grandson Alexander Milne at Prestonpans where basket was damaged, repaired & at Falkirk the blade was broken off to 20" & re-sharpened, he then fought at Culloden with Ogilvy or Gordon. This is a far as i can go & would appreciate any help with this, i also have quite a few more pre-1745 antique swords if any members want to swap pictures or just have a look,

I look forward to hearing your reply

Regards

Scott Ward

Dear Scott

What an interesting story. Your collection must be fascinating.

I cannot help you with your investigations but perhaps there is someone who will read this letter who can be of help.

If you have not done so already and as the sword was used at Prestonpans then you might get in touch with the Prestonpans Heritage Trust http://www.battleofprestonpans1745.org/heritagetrust/default.aspx

They might be able to help and even if they cannot they will be very interested I should think.

Lewie

Scott

I have been looking through the sources available to me with regard to Alexander Milne. You will forgive me if you have better information than I do.

I have "Prisoners of the '45" and " No Quarter Given, The Muster Roll of Prince CES's Army" from which to find Alexander.

"Prisoners" does not mention an Alexander Milne at all as far as I can see. The Muster Roll has an Alexander Miln of Moy who fought in Lady Mackintosh's (Colonel Anne's) regiment. He surrended 07 June 1746

There is also a Alexander Milne (or possibly Mill) of Bonnyton. He was a shepherd. He was a member of Ogilvy's reg and seems to have died at home (sources -- Earl of Roseberry List of Persons Concerned with the Rebellion Scot Hist Soc 1890 and also the Muster Roll of Forfarshire or Ogilvy's Reg., Alexander Mackintosh, Inverness 1914).

Does this help?

Lewie

Hi Lewie,

Thank you for looking into this for me, I don't think a shepherd would own a baskethilt with family crest, Alexander would be of a reasonable standing for his day unless for bad fortune & it was a simple hand-me-down from his father or grandfather, I got some small info from a guy I know in the U.S.He was over at Culloden visitor centre last year & has been looking into it for me, he told me through various chats with someone there that Alexander died at Culloden, I don't know how he got that info & I tried myself to speak to somone there at the memorial in April but got nowhere, Would the Culloden centre have any more source material than you have at hand?

It is though still nice to have at least a family name connected to the sword, with the other swords I have I can only dream who owned them & what they have witnessed, I have a relic "S" shape baskethilt with a massive wide blade cut off at the end, it has been in the ground or side of river or loch but I will never know how it got there, very frustrating!

Again thanks for helping me with this & I'll speak to you soon,

Best Regards

Scott

19.07.08

From Mr Florian Saamen

Dear Ladies and Gentlemen,

Me and my Girlfriend are Reenactors (Jacobites 1745/46) from Germany.

We do Scottish Jacobites from the 1745/46.

I hope you understand if I need a "Battle ready" Targe for the Presentation!

I know that my question sounds a bit strange...

I'd like to try build the targe with my own Hands!

For this, I need some information about the Lord Lovat's Targe.

So I hope you can help.

I remain respectfully yours,

Florian Saamen

Dear Florian

I am afraid my knowledge of targe making is a bit limited! However, there are plenty of targe makers on the internet who might be able to give you advice. You might also take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Targe

Here is a picture of a reproduction targe reputed to have been owned by Simon Fraser Lord Lovat

Lewie

11.07.08

From Mr Michael Merrgan

Lewie, a Chara,

Greetings from Dublin, Ireland.

Just a quick question for you regarding the Association's Coat of Arms, would you be able to explain the significance of the symbolism and possibly, indicate from what heraldic authority, if any, they were obtained ad when.

They do look very impressive indeed.

By the way, attached, please find a copy of "Ireland's Genealogical Gazette" the monthly newsletter of the Genealogical Society of Ireland, in which, I hope to carry a piece on your Association. Ireland's_Genealogical_Gazette_-_July2008_PDF[1].pdf

Go raibh maith agat,

Mise le meas,

Michael Merrigan
General Secretary
Genealogical Society of Ireland
www.familyhistory.ie

Reply from Miss C.W. Aikman Secretary 1745 Association

Dear Michael

In answer to your query.

Shield - 3 crowns; Scotland, England & France; the jacobite white rose supported by 2 fleur-de-Lys.

Crest; 2 crossed Lochaber axes supporting the Standard of Prince Charles Edward Stuart.

Motto; "Tandem Triumphans" is Let It Triumph.

This coat of arms has been devised by the staff of the Lord Lyon and approved by him.

Christian Aikman

Secretary

1745 Association

26.06.08

From Mr Jim Cheyne

Dear Lewie,

In all your readings have you ever come across the Aboyne Battalion or the Abine Battalion from Deeside?

Enjoying the side.

Thanks.

Jim Cheyne.

Hello Jim

There was a Jacobite force raised from Deeside. Lord Lewis Gordon was responsible for raising it and Francis Farquharson of Monaltrie and James Moir of Stoneywood were appointed Colonels. Francis' cousin was the famous female Jacobite Lady Anne Mackintosh.

Farquharson is buried in the old Crathie kirkyard. Today the kirk is best known for for its most famous worshippers, a family not known for great sympathies to the Jacobite cause.

Those interested may find more at the Clan Farquarson website http://www.farquharson-clan.co.uk/content/history/francis_farquharson.htm

Lewie

27.06.08

From Mr Jim Cheyne

Hi Lewie,

Many thanks for the information you gave. I don't know if you would be interested but I will give you the information I have on the Aboyne battalion.

From the Legends of The Braes O' Mar by John Grant, my copy dated 1876. "On the 15th January, 1746, just two days before the battle, Lewis Gordon writes from Bannockburn to Moir of Stoneywood and Farquharson of Monaltrie, commanding officers of the Aberdeen and Aboyne battalions, ordering them to joing the main bodyof the army forthwith".

From The New Statistical Account of Scotland Vol. XII. Aberdeen. Page 1063 Aboyne and Glentanner, footnote: In 1745-6, a battalion, named by Lord Lewis Gordon "the Aboyne battalion", and commanded by Farquharson of Monaltree, beat the Macleods at Inverury and, in the fierce onslaught at Culloden, cut through "Burrell's Blue". The survivors who returned from that eventful field are all now beyond the din of war. The writer remembers seven or eight of them, and has often heard from them an account of their disastrous adventure".

Regards.

Jim.

Hello again Jim
Yes, we certainly are interested. It's always good to hear from someone with knowledge of the '45 and associated matters. I am no great expert compared with some so am always willing to learn more, as are all our members.

I have looked at our membership lists and so far as I can see you are not yet a member of the 1745 Association. Perhaps you might like to consider joining. You would be most welcome.

Lewie

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